Franz and Pope Restoration Part 5 - the saga continues

 The #120 needles ordered from Ali Express did not work in my Franz and Pope.  The butts of the needles were indeed shorter than the Lamb/Tuttle needles.  Maybe too short.  In addition, the shaft of the needle is too fine.  The needles rotate within the channel of the cylinder, jamming the cams.   

So I've inquired from another source, knittingelements.eu, as to the availability of needles between the Lamb/Tuttle needle and the #120 needle for a mask-making machine. 

I'm waiting for a response from them.  As it were, I am on pins and needles!  

In the meantime, I visited the location where Katy Kelly grew up, a farm in North Robinson, Ohio.  Katy was the demonstrator who travelled to knitting mills for six weeks at a time to help them get set up with their new factories.

The house is no longer there, and the barn has apparently collapsed.  I did not trespass on the property, but took a photo from the road using my husband's phone, as I had forgotten mine.

The only things that impressed me about North Robinson were a.) How flat the landscape is,  b.) How huge the Colonel Crawford school is.   It has its own water tower, out in the middle of the farm fields, and c.) How close  the railroad was to the Kelly farm.

I used bing's AI to look for information on Franz and Pope, and it pulled up a new fact for me, a short biographical paragraph of a Franz and Pope bookkeeper named McCutchon.  

I need to check the dates to see if he was the bookkeeper before Katy Kelly or afterwards, or maybe even overlapping her time.

Franz and Pope Restoration Part 4

 To sum up where I am on this project: I got sample needles from Angora Valley for the Franz and Pope machine.   The sample needles did not work when I put 2 new needles in the cylinder along with 70 old needles.   

I compared the needles.  The butts of the new needles were slightly bigger than the butts of the old needles. 

Someone on the Vintage Krankers page suggested I test them alone.  I was easily able to crank a 2 stitch I-cord using the two needles alone. 

So I ordered (so I thought) 2 packages of 50 needles.  It turned out that I ordered two packs of 100 needles. 

I put all the new needles in the machine and confidently started knitting away.  

Unfortunately, it is very difficult to turn.  I took the machine apart (again) and my husband helped me by providing some hardened steel finger gauges of the correct thickness and hardened steel dental picks to ream any remaining corrosion out of the cylinder slots.  There was actually quite a bit left. 

 

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After I reassembled the machine and put all the new needles back into the cylinder, I can turn it.  But, the needles kick out at the top as I crank, throwing the yarn loops off the needles and dropping stitches left and right.    Evidently the slight difference in needle butt size is important. 

I had contacted an industrial knitting machine supplier in Germany, Groz-Beckert, and I actually received a call back from a person!  He was intrigued because my address was Lucas, Ohio and he was from Lucas County, Ohio, near Toledo.  After my inquiry I learned that this supplier usually only sells needles in quantities of 10,000 or so which is a few more than I need.  So I thanked him for returning my call.  I did receive a follow-up email from the company, also, where they stated that I needed to send actual needles, not just photos.  Since I only have 72 of the original needles, I'm not willing to part with any of them. 

So I asked my husband if there would be any way to grind down the butts of the new needles without breaking them. 

He thought about it for a day or so and then he came up with this: 

 

He had decided that grinding 72 needles would be a tedious job. 

He found a needle on Ali Express. The description is 

"New 120 flat knitting needle for line of mask making machine/flat knitting machine needle"

Apparently the knitted ear loops of some masks are made using these needles.  

It ships from China and it should be here in 30-60 days.  200 pieces for 27.00. 

I looked around for other needles with that description and found this one: 

I'm tempted to order a set of these as well.  The size appears to be correct. 

I am flabbergasted that he was able to find these with a few google searches. He wasn't looking for mask-making machine needles.  He doesn't know a lot about knitting machines.   I've been looking all over, and the only place I found sock machine needles was Angora Valley.  

Now I'm going down another rabbit hole to see if I can find where these industrial needles are used.  I found another supplier on Ali Express that has a minimum quantity of 10,000 at 5 cents each.  Wherever it is that they are used, it surely must be in large quantities. 

I came across  a video posted on AliExpress showing how these needles are manufactured.  It brought back memories for me of working in the Fisher Body Division of General Motors where we had both small and large metal stamping presses.Manufacturing Process

I really, really wonder how these needles were made in the 1880's.   

I'm also wondering where these needles are used today.  I looked at the reviews on Ali Express and one needle style was reviewed with 5 stars by a Ukranian reviewer, and the other one by an apparently dissatisfied Russian reviewer sending photos of the needles with a tape measure.   A third supplier also gave length and width measurements, but had no reviews. 

I was curious about who was supplying needles in 1880. I found a report associated with the 1900 census on Needles and Pins.  

"The steel spring and latch needles used in making hosiery and in stockinet work are extensively manufactured in the United States. The former is constructed by reducing- the working end on a taper to an approximate point, and then bending the reduced portion over upon itself so as to form an open loop, a. groove having been previously made in the needle so as to come opposite the point. In the operation of the needle the point stands out at the proper time for the yarn to be taken, which is to be carried through to form the stitch. As the forward motion continues the point is depressed into the groove by coming in contact with mechanism arranged for the purpose, ancl thus the passage through the loop is secured with-out catching. The latch needle has, instead of the spring barb, a short rigid hook, which is formed by tapering the working end to an approximate point and bending it in combination with the latch. The latch is contained in a groove milled in the body of the needle and is pivoted upon a rivet which passes through the wall of the groove. As the latch, the walls between which it is riveted, and the diameter of tho rivet are extremely delicate, eitch part being but one one-hundredth part of an inch thick, great care and skill must necessarily be exercised in manufacturing this needle. The purpose of the latch is to aid in forming' and casting off the stitch by preventing the yarn from being caught under the hook except at the proper time.  Inclucles establishments distributed its follows: Illinois, 1; Maryland 1; Michigan, l; Missouri, 2; New Jersey, 1; Vermout, 1."

A follow-up report published in 1919 reports that there are 25 manufacturers of knitting machine needles in the US. 

Where to go from here? Will Google help me find needle manufacturers in for example Illinois in 1880?  

Interesting  Fact:  William Franz was born in Leesville, Crawford County, Ohio.  He started his career in engraving and as a jeweler in Plymouth, Ohio, traveled to Cleveland Ohio and Meadville, PA.  Meadville, PA is in Crawford County, Pennsylvania.